Who is jumping the Ubuntu ship?

[Gozzin]

 So with Shuttleworth basically doing his Unity thing and telling people if they don't like it they can just leave..Who is leaving the flagship Ubuntu?

[e2]

Personally I'm undecided, but have many other distros that I am happy with.... arch, slackware.... debian..

It's all good and really regarding the 11.04 thing that I upgraded from 10.10 to on this box:

I don't think it is for me or was intended to be, but it does work albeit in a way I don't particularly like and if it wasn't for the vbox installs of other linux distros I'd have bailed quite some time ago.

So ask me again in a few days when I'll be mainly running scientific linux or slackware with a vbox of debian squeeze for our poker nights.

[rnojonson]

The good news for now is that Ubuntu Classic is Gnome as we all know it. The bad news if you don't like what's coming, is that Gnome3 will be sorta like the Unity Desktop thingy. I like Unity or Gnome3 but they need work.

With Gnome3 going the way of Unity, the emphasis on touch screen tablets and all, it doesn't translate too well for mouse mashers.

I played with a live-CD Gnome3, it is more polished than Unity but not much else. A fully installed working Gnome3 would tell the tale.

On my meager laptop I've installed XFCE to navigate Ubuntu 11.04. It works better but you have to setup everything to your liking.

Were I to make the distro jump, Mint is on my mind but it's not the distro, it's the new default desktops/window managers. They will be with every distro, hey it's a Linux thing! Jump ship to avoid Unity and you will land on Gnome3 (much like Unity) or KDE (same but different). Will XFCE change too? don't know!

[rji]

I don't use Gnome or Ubuntu, but Unity in virtualbox provided a slightly better experience than the Fedora based Gnome 3 livecd. 

I am still put off by the Ubuntu software center which doesn't clearly notify you that it is doing anything when it is updating the package lists, suffering the same flaw as gpk-application (PackageKit's gui), the moving of the program menus to the panel seems like a silly thing to do, but not enough to get my panties in a bunch.

Maybe if the Gnome Foundation would pay someone to perform a usability study instead of changing things wily-nilly for the sake of change or at the very least make their wily-nilly changes an option and not a full on unchangeably ugly default, Gnome would get more consideration from me.

[rnojonson]

The timing of all this is terrible. Unity and Gnome3 are "shells", which means they sit on top or are the front ends for a desktop manager. Unity sits on the Gnome2 base in Ubuntu 11.04 which means you can not run Gnome3 shell (requires the Gnome3 base) on that same system. This tells me that Unity will change again when the Gnome2 base goes away and the Gnome3 base takes over.

When the Gnome3 base becomes the standard for both Unity and Gnome3 "shells", it is just a matter of style because they are so similar. So far I like Gnome3 shell, it is more logical to me.

I thought Ubuntu was trying develop a stand-alone desktop, not just a "shell" that sits on top of someone else's desktop library. This makes them dependent on the progress of others. Dependencies have always been the downside of Linux software. The software center is a casual/noobie user thing, Apt-get or Synaptic is for grownups.

When you put the beans in a row Unity, Gnome3 and KDE are now similar. KDE folks have a large vocal approval, seems Unity and Gnome3 are trending behind KDE.

I switch between the choices, waiting for the stars to align, there might not be a reason to jump-ship, the whole Linux desktop world is being affected. I am repeating myself, oh darn, now I'm redundant!

[rji]

The software center is a casual/noobie user thing, Apt-get or Synaptic is for grownups.

The Software Center and PackageKit GUI are supposed to be "easier for everyone" which doesn't explain why I always install Aptitude or Yumex to avoid the problems I have with both.

I think the problem is neither Gnome Shell or Unity is aimed at desktop usage, they are both aimed at tablets where the search paradigm kinda makes sense, judging from the Blackberry and droid commercials I've seen.

[Dragonbite]

You know, I've been going back-and-forth, but after testing Fedora 15 and Gnome 3 I am returning to Ubuntu.

Why?

One of the reasons for me looking at Fedora is that since last year my laptop has been bitten by the Intel 855 issue.  Fedora is the only distro that has given me 3D / Desktop effects.  Ubuntu and openSUSE have improved only to the point of me not having to do hiijinks to get the systems to boot (previously, it was the black-screen-of-death).

Oh, and basically there is no enthusiasm to fix this issue either. The systems are now entering "life-support" stage.

So I optimistically tried out Fedora 15 with Gnome 3 on the laptop, and found that my system just isn't up to snuff.  It isn't up to snuff for Unity either.  Between Fedora and Ubuntu, though, Ubuntu actually kept the fallback Gnome on par with their usual Gnome offering, while Fedora looks like they threw it in "just in case" and "to appease the masses". The menus are different and the capabilities are limited.

So with Unity out-of-the-picture for the moment, I realized that Ubuntu is still Ubuntu; same stability, hardware detection, ease of installation and use, available documentation and strong community. 

So I'm sticking with Ubuntu for now.  For me, it is the lesser of the "regressed experience".

I know work is being done on both of these systems and I am hopeful that each will improve. I've used Unity 2D on this laptop on 10.10 and if they spend time bringing it up-to-par (or at least close) to the full-blown Unity then I won't mind so much having to use it as thte 2D becomes the fallback.

Luckily I have 3 hard drives I can swap with this macine, so one is going to be Windows (reclaiming an old 10.04 dual-boot partition), the second is Fedora 13 KDE (which does give me desktop effects and 3D), and the last is running Ubuntu 11.04 (which I am typing this on right now).

But that's just me.

[rnojonson]

I have wondered why this deep integration of desktop and OS has crept into development thinking. Every time it happens, new distros pop up from folks who don't like it. I don't think dev folks realize touchy-feely little pc devices are not what everybody wants or can use. Ubuntu is throwing me/us a curve.

In the DOS world, those DOS front ends were excellent. And you could choose to run Windows or Dos until they caught the integration fever, it went south from there. Canonical was saying Unity would be a default, but in reality it is not. A default would be a graphical command line, taking away command line fear, being very efficient, easy to use and able to run on "any" Linux OS without sweating. It would be at home on a server, desktop, laptop or netbook. That's a default.

The Linux branding wars have begun, user Jedi can no longer limit the old Penguin Republic.

I like the Debian base, RPM type distros leave me wanting. Fedora with Gnome 3 looked very good but not enough for me to switch to RPMs. I have heard good reviews about Pinguy (still Gnome 2) and I drool everytime I see Mint (I know this means something). No Debian/Ubuntu distros with Gnome 3 out the box yet.

This is my frustration, why do I have to choose between an OS and a desktop? My remedy is to put my home folder on a USB drive and have several boot partitions on my hard drive.

Star Wars didn't have transporters, Star Trek did, live long and perspire! Ship to ship transfers are easier.

[janvl]

I still use ubuntu, with the "classic" gnome2 looks.

As a matter of fact I would like to see more integration because I like a lot of
typical KDE applications and some of the Gnome ones too, so although they warn not to
do it, I mix. I install Ubuntu and on top of that KDE.

My problem with 11.04 is that Xara LX does not show a menu any more, I do not yet know
how to solve that because I also switched to 64bit now.

Kind regards,
Jan

[kenh]

I've tried Ubuntu 11.04 with Unity and Fedora with the Gnome 3 shell.  I liked neither, although I slightly preferred  the Gnome 3 experience.  Will not be installing either of these.  The only 'buntu I now like is Xubuntu and I'm running Xubuntu 11.04 on a desktop computer.  Xfce has improved a lot since the last couple of updates and functionality is very good. It's lighter and faster than the current KDE or Gnome distributions.

I'm glad that Mint 11 (just released) stuck with classic Gnome 2.3.  I'm using Mint 10 as my main distro, but may switch to Mint 11 after I test it out a bit.  There are some improvements over Mint 10, but mostly it's just polish. It will be interesting to see what they will do with the next version.

[rji]

My problem with 11.04 is that Xara LX does not show a menu any more, I do not yet know
how to solve that because I also switched to 64bit now.

That is the kicker about Unity, all programs will need to be patched if you want access to the file menu bars.  It's why Adam Williamson gave up trying to package it for Fedora and why it won't be packaged for openSUSE.

[rnojonson]

My desktop still has Ubuntu 11.04 but I have had it with Unity. I bought myself some time by switching my laptop to Mint 11, what a refresh! If Gnome 3, when it comes out, is good I will stay, but I am liking Mint.
Mint is Ubuntu underneath is that a real ship jump?

[Dragonbite]

I still use ubuntu, with the "classic" gnome2 looks.

As a matter of fact I would like to see more integration because I like a lot of
typical KDE applications and some of the Gnome ones too, so although they warn not to
do it, I mix. I install Ubuntu and on top of that KDE.

I think that is part of the purpose, or the "Unity" part of Unity; to make Qt (KDE) applications more than 2nd class citizens in the desktop.  To this end, a fork of Gnome makes sense although it doesn't sound like it's such a fork either. I think they will support Gnome 3 extensions in Unity by 11.10+

Between Unity and Gnome 3 it will be interesting to see who "listens to their users" and makes it more comfortable first.

Gnome "Classic" on 11.04 isn't too bad. It's "familiar" for now.

[gemlog]

I think that is part of the purpose, or the "Unity" part of Unity; to make Qt (KDE) applications more than 2nd class citizens in the desktop.  To this end, a fork of Gnome makes sense although it doesn't sound like it's such a fork either. I think they will support Gnome 3 extensions in Unity by 11.10+

I'm sorry, but I don't think that assertion makes sense.

You can run any app given you have the supporting libs under any desktop. You prolly know that too. Apt-get, yum, yast, up2date w.h.y. will pull in all that you need for any app.

Integration of kde and gnome et alia apps integrating icons with the desktop and tooltray to support one another's desktops has been underway for years now. It's not a war (any longer, since qt has been gpl for all o/s for years).

Kde4 going all plasmoid vs. .desktop icons has really mixed things up though. Still has me wondering which way is up, for sure.

KDE has added a lot of (so far to me) questionable functionality and retained nearly all of their old knobs and dials. Gnome seems hell-bent on removing knobs and dials and enforcing a 'look and feel' determined solely by the main devs. Unity is the logical extension of that thinking to Gnome 3 and everyone seems to hate it.

[rji]

Kde4 going all plasmoid vs. .desktop icons has really mixed things up though. Still has me wondering which way is up, for sure.

right click > desktop settings > type > folder view

KDE has added a lot of (so far to me) questionable functionality and retained nearly all of their old knobs and dials. Gnome seems hell-bent on removing knobs and dials and enforcing a 'look and feel' determined solely by the main devs. Unity is the logical extension of that thinking to Gnome 3 and everyone seems to hate it.

KDE4 is nice, but would be much better if kwin weren't so touchy with compositing enabled.