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Author Topic: 6th of June  (Read 1112 times)
conholster
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« on: June 05, 2009, 06:24:25 PM »

Today is 65 years since the Allied landings in Normandy, D-Day. I don't know anyone who fought there, but alot of Americans, Canadiens and Britts do and did. 160 000 men were transported over the Brittish Canal to participate in the assault. It's still unclear how many people we're killed during the landing. But one thing is certain, many would never see the world they fought for.

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them."

 -- Laurence Binyon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Overlord
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Paul LeBlanc
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2009, 06:40:08 PM »

 As I have heard the few vets I know who were there say... "The real heroes, never came home"

 It is very nice to see mention of this date, as none in the free world should ever forget all who fought to ensure that freedom... from the soldiers, to the resistance fighters behind the lines. And not to forget all the innocent who were caught up in between it all.
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rji
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2009, 01:03:33 PM »

I wonder if we've learned the lessons that WWII and the events that led up to it have taught.
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lunoob
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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2009, 06:10:18 PM »

I wonder if we've learned the lessons that WWII and the events that led up to it have taught.

I suppose that depends on who is included in "we."  I'm pretty sure someone hasn't.   Roll Eyes
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rji
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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2009, 08:01:18 PM »

"We" as in the average person regardless of nationality. 

Anyone of a number of groups within Germany pre-1934 could have worked together against the National Socialist party before the Communist Party was framed for the Reichstag fire and expelled from German politics, and after 1934 France and/or Britain could have enforced the Treaty of Versailles and expelled the German army from the Rhineland with no loss of life (the German Officers said they were going to withdraw if there were any resistance) which would have had disastrous consequences to Adolf Hitler politically.  It is one of the reasons why the League of Nations is viewed as being a complete failure.

If we don't learn from history, we'll be doomed to repeat it.
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Paul LeBlanc
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2009, 09:50:56 PM »

 The SSA made a small attempt to do as you suggest.. but we know how that played out. Had they been successful, would things have turned out differently? I am not all too sure about that. Maybe it would have delayed the war by keeping Germany occupied with it's own civil war for a time.
 And, had France or Britain attempted to enforce the treaty, would have sparked a war anyway.
 WWII was a completely unavoidable event. There were other parts of the world which played into the factors, such as Japan, which was also trying to expand it's own empire, in belief it was their only way to survive.

 We will always be doomed to repeat war. War is fueled by hatred, which has existed since the beginning of mankind, and sadly, will exist till the end.
 Lessons learned? Some learn how horrible war is... while other learn how to fight it better/more efficiently.
 Unfortunately, we have too many different views of what is wrong, and what is right in this world. And, when two or more groups with different views meet, they clash.
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ruel24
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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2009, 08:43:22 AM »

As I have heard the few vets I know who were there say... "The real heroes, never came home"

Can you even imagine the bravery required to storm that beach, watching your fellow soldiers drop one by one from the machine guns sitting on top of the hill? I can't even begin to put that into perspective... Watching that footage just sends chills up my body. I like to think I'm a brave person, but that's in a whole different league, there!

Everytime I run into a group of veterans doing something with their local VFW, I always take the time to say "thank you" to them. I can't say they'll ever actually be thanked enough. My father was a veteran of Vietnam, and it's because of him that I'm so sentimental about the sacrifices that military men make.
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rji
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2009, 12:09:25 PM »

And, had France or Britain attempted to enforce the treaty, would have sparked a war anyway.
 WWII was a completely unavoidable event. There were other parts of the world which played into the factors, such as Japan, which was also trying to expand it's own empire, in belief it was their only way to survive.

I don't agree with that assessment, but I can respect it.  Remember as manipulative as Hitler was, his hold over the German Army was extremely tentative, basically he was relying on promises he never intended to keep to have them on his side.  The German Army knew they didn't have the firepower to stand against the French and would have capitulated at the first sign of resistance.  Read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" as it provides a very in depth explanation of how fragile Hitler's grasp on power was in the early 1930's.

Japan was a different beast altogether, remember they basically had no choice but to attack Pearl Harbor because of the American oil embargo and FDR's ultimatum for them to get out of China.  Was their invasion of China a good thing?  Of course not, but the inability of the Emperor to accept that he had to rely on external forces to keep his country going forced the issue from his and his ministers nationalist and racist point of view.

Quote
We will always be doomed to repeat war. War is fueled by hatred, which has existed since the beginning of mankind, and sadly, will exist till the end.

I refuse to agree with this, there is always a way out of bloodshed.  It just takes people realizing how silly nationalism and racism is and that all of us on this planet are interconnected and cannot exist without the others, regardless of nationality.  We don't have to like each other Grin we just have learn to live with each other and celebrate our similarities and to share our resources, of course.   Maybe I'm being too idealistic here, but I refuse to believe that war is inevitable.   Wink

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Lessons learned? Some learn how horrible war is... while other learn how to fight it better/more efficiently.
 Unfortunately, we have too many different views of what is wrong, and what is right in this world. And, when two or more groups with different views meet, they clash.

I don't know, I'd like to think that WWII is a clear example on how insane racial theories coupled with unbridled nationalism are a clear recipe for destruction, but considering recent events on the African continent people haven't learned to celebrate their similarities with those that are "different."
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Paul LeBlanc
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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2009, 01:21:23 PM »

 I fully understand what you are getting at. But, what I mean is, are lessons learned from war,and it's atrocities? Yes.. but mostly by the common-people of every nation. It is their governments which drive difference to the point of war.
 War is not usually the final solution as far as common-civilians are concerned... it is the politics/politicians which bring about that means to an end.

 On a side note. If we can keep this topic on a historical view, and not get into current politics, or anything which will lead into a heated debate.. I am glad to keep this open, as I am sure there are a few of us here, who enjoy discussing history, and hind-site reviews on the "what could have beens".
 Unless my fellow admins or mods disagree... I like having people to discuss these types of things with.

 If there is anyone in this community, who this topic would bother, and or offend, please say so here and we will cease our discussion.

 You seem a very interesting individual to have such a discussion with rji... it is very enjoyable to speak with someone who knows their history  Grin
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rji
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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2009, 02:17:51 PM »

Thanks, I do hope I didn't offend anyone, though.
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Paul LeBlanc
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2009, 10:56:26 PM »

 No offense here. And, I am sure if anyone was, they would have mentioned it by now.
 I am a military, history buff ( a bit rusty in some areas due to lack of people to discuss such topics with though Cheesy)

 My biggest areas of interest are mostly pre WWII, but I am familiar with the events leading to it.
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rji
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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2009, 01:57:07 PM »

Well to be fair, the events of WWII aren't exactly happy conversation material.   Wink
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Laurent
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2009, 10:27:07 AM »

But you can still see the damage of WWII, well, in Europe at least.

My school was bombarded and it's still very clear;
the church on our school looks cracked and because some buildings were topped of and rebuilded later on, there is a difference in style.



Indeed, no happy conversation material, but interesting though  Wink
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